"Combat" is More Than a Word

by: ThurmanHart

Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 20:49:15 PM EDT


(What makes someone a "decorated combat veteran?"  Thurman Hart puts the question to us framed within the drama of a New Jersey Congressional race.  From the diaries - promoted by Brandon Friedman)

I don't usually make a huge deal out of my six years of service in the US Navy.  I went in when I was eighteen, spent four years as an electrician on the USS Saipan, and got out.  I have a box on a shelf where I keep some spare bits of cloth and metal that the Navy gave me for various things, but it's really not a big deal.

But, from time to time, something happens that really hits me--as a veteran.  Those of us who have worn a uniform know how misleading a lot of military jargon is.  "Friendly fire," of course, isn't friendly at all.  And the majority of people who serve in a "combat zone" do not actually experience combat.

So I took interest when I saw Republican candidate Chris Myers repeatedly identify himself as a "decorated combat veteran".  Like me, Myers is a Navy vet.  And--I don't think I'm breaking major news here--Navy personnel generally have a fairly low chance of engaging in direct combat.  This is especially true when compared to the Marine Corps and Army.

Read the rest below. . . .

ThurmanHart :: "Combat" is More Than a Word
So I did some checking.  Mr. Myers served aboard the USS Bunker Hill during Desert Shield/Storm.  His claim of being seasoned by combat appears to be tied to the award of the Combat Action Ribbon to his ship.  But, as I discovered, the award was given under a waiver of the traditional definition of "combat".  

Basically, to get the Combat Action Ribbon, his ship should have had to take damage from the mines in the area where it operated - as the Tripoli and Princeton did.  Myers has claimed that the Bunker Hill had several "near misses" - but I don't recall awards being given for "almost being in combat".  Hence, the waiver.

The other claim of combat comes from the V designor on his Navy Commendation Medal.  Normally referred to as a "combat V", it is given for particularly valiant or notable service in combat.  The award letter notes that Mr. Myers was responsible, in effect, for air traffic control during ground operations (combat).  The Bunker Hill fired twenty-four missiles in support of the ground troops.

Again, this is not the traditional understanding of naval combat.  It is, technically, a "combat support" operation.  Words matter.

It doesn't mean that Mr. Myers didn't serve honorably.  He did.  It doesn't mean that he is lying about his awards.  He isn't.  But it does mean that he has the experience to know that he was not in combat and is chosing to inflate the public perception of his resume by misrepresenting his experience.

I believe that all veterans, even those such as myself who were never in combat, should be honored for the service they have given.  After all, if I had been called on to enter combat while in uniform, I would have.  But we should be satisfied with the honor we deserve, and those whose lives were endangered by direct enemy fire, in my opinion, deserve an extra measure of respect - as do those who have been injured in battle, those who were killed in action, and prisoners of war.  

It is not denigrating other service to say that the sacrifices called for by these experiences require more than the normal measure of honor.  It is merely stating what should be obvious.  "Combat" means actual combat.  At least, it should.

Since Mr. Myers has nothing else upon which to base his campaign, he reacted strongly.  He sent out a press release and held a press conference attacking me for pointing out that he was stretching the public record.  

Mr. Myers claimed that I was trying to "swiftboat" him.  That group, however, claimed that the official record of John Kerry's service was somehow falsified.  I claim the official record is right, but Myers doesn't want the whole thing to be known.  But, since he brought it up, there is no record of him condemning the Swiftboat Liers for their actions.

He has also claimed that I was "coordinated" with his opponent, who is not a veteran.  When asked for substantiation of this serious charge, he simply said, "I have no proof of it."  The truth is that I left the military because I don't like to take orders - not even from someone I hope wins office.  I am not working for anyone.

Throughout the whole thing, Mr. Myers has denounced me as a "liberal blogger" while finding a way to neglect mentioning that I am a veteran and my ship even spent several months operating in the same waters as the Bunker Hill.  As a result of his strategic omissions, and of his coordinated email efforts, commenters in serveral local newspapers have derided me as a crack-pot who doesn't know anything (here and here, for examples).  To me, this is simply more of the same old GOP gameplan of running a veteran (me) - except this time it is a veteran who is doing it.  

Is it a fine hair to split?  I suppose so.  But it is an important one.  We all know that American voters love a veteran - and they tend to turn off their filters when someone claims veteran status.  Those of us who know the difference have to stand up to protect those who have and are currently serving in combat.  But we also have to speak up and protect the voters from a politically ambitious cynic who is more concerned with winning an election than with telling the truth about his service.  Myers hopes that this will make people forget that he said that the important thing in Iraq is to make it "look like we've won".

If it is not a hair worth splitting; then why put so much effort into destroying my public reputation?  If it is a hair worth splitting; then why raise a fuss when a person insists that the public record should be told in its entirety?

If you feel strongly enough about this, you can pass a donation along to Myers' opponent, State Senator John Adler.  If you think I'm wrong, you're certainly free to say so.  That is, after all, one of the reasons all of us wore the uniforms that we did.

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First off, great job researching all this, Thurman. (4.00 / 6)
I'm apt to cut people a lot of slack when it comes to this stuff.  In a time of war, we all make sacrifices, we all put our lives on the line, and that's understood.  Plus, I wasn't there, so I don't really know how much "combat" a person may or may not have seen.

But I think you're right in this case to question Myers.  It's not that he's just saying he's a combat veteran--which I believe him to be.  It's that he seems to not want to shut up about being a "DECORATED COMBAT VETERAN."  

Because it's not just that he says on his website or something that he's a "decorated combat veteran."  It's that he's aggressively using it, and by doing so, he's elevating himself and his experience to a clearly undeserved level.  Case in point, when he says stuff like this:

We navigated through mine-infested waters - just missing several. The same waters where the USS Tripoli and USS Princeton were damaged by mines," Myers said. "And we did all that while firing 28 Tomahawk Missiles at enemy targets on the ground in support of our Army and Marine brethren on the ground, controlling and clearing 10,000 military aircraft to fly safely over the Persian Gulf, and designing and executing air defense plans aimed at preventing friendly aircraft from being shot down. If that's not combat I don't know what is."

Emphasis is mine.  He was around when his ship "just missed" several mines and fired some cruise missiles?  Okay, yeah, that's technically combat.  But "missing several" mines isn't exactly being "in the shit."   By being so presumptuous as to say "If that's not combat I don't know what is," he makes himself out to be a real asshole.  If that's what he really thinks, I've got news for him.  And I'm sure a lot of troops here who've actually served in combat could clue this poser in.

But then, the guy goes further with his self-righteousness:

Myers said via telephone later in the day that he didn't have to dodge bullets to be in combat.

Okay.  Yeah, whatever.  Technically not.  But the deal is, if you're going to publicly proclaim yourself to be a "decorated combat veteran"--and you're going to base a political campaign on that assertion--you pretty much have to dodge bullets at some point.  I'm sorry, this isn't the YMCA.  That's just the way it is.  Anything else is disingenuous.  

This guy needs to exercise a little more humility and a little more respect for the people who actually have to deal with suicide bombers, sucking chest wounds, and a fear that he has never experienced and will never know.

Every service member in the combat zone plays an integral role in the fight.  But just being there doesn't give one license to go around bragging about being a "decorated combat veteran."  One might be a "decorated veteran" or a "combat veteran," but  when you go the "decorated combat veteran" route, that implies to anyone listening that you were knee-deep in hand grenade pins, fighting off a horde of suicidal zealots.  I'm not even sure I know any infantrymen who describe themselves as such.


Decorated + Combat + Veteran (4.00 / 1)
Brandon, excellent word combination analysis. This is something that I had been having trouble grasping and you explained it so easily and succinctly.

Let me add one more word to the mix, "Era." That is to distinguish the "Combat Era Veteran."

Now to expand on what you did;

1.) If one served during peace time and solely has service ribbons, they are only a "Veteran."

2.) If one served during peace time and they have been awarded the AAM or better, they could be a Decorated Veteran.

3.) If one served in combat and was solely awarded service medals/ribbons they are "Combat Veterans."

4.) If one served in combat and was awarded a Bronze Star (other than service) they are a "Decorated Combat Veteran." (Maybe an ARCOM subject to the citation)

That leaves this political candidate a "Combat Era Veteran."

You are right, the Combat Infantryman Badge does not make one a Decorated Combat Veteran.


[ Parent ]
question (4.00 / 2)
Quick question. I understand that being shot at and being in the shit are synonymous with " Combat ". But as an AF Security Forces NCO who patrolled the IED festooned Highways and streets of Umm Qasr and Safwan daily, acting as bomb bait for the  convoy's/presence patrols.  I am wondering that if,  in this day and age as well as in the future will " Combat" be exclusive to only those who where were in a shooting match? or will that label be extended to those of us who didn't get any trigger time, but broke wire everyday and did more in Iraq than wait in line at the internet cafe? Great post by the way, and by no means would I promote myself as a " decorated combat veteran "  as this joker did. but would I and many others whose experiences are similar qualify as " combat veterans " or just near misses ?. P.S. bring on the Air Force jokes! ha ha ha, I need to replenish my stockpile!

No AF jokes here (0.00 / 0)
Thank you and the rest of the AF for stepping up and performing a dangerous mission previously reserved for the Army and sometimes Marines.  We (Army) could not have done it without you.  I"m sure you passed more IED's (that didn't go off) than mines that were in the ocean.


[ Parent ]
I don't mean dodging "bullets" literally. (4.00 / 1)
If enemy ordnance of any type is going off around you, then that's being in combat, I would say.  

[ Parent ]
There's where it gets tricky. (4.00 / 1)
Guerrilla/asymmetrical warfare makes these definitions a bit more abstract that they were in the past, but I think Brandon's qualifier works pretty well when talking specifically about being engaged in combat operations. There are a lot of admirable service members who put themselves into harm's way, but were lucky enough to avoid having someone try to kill them. That doesn't take away from their service or their sacrifice--it just means that they were not directly involved in combat even while they were in a combat zone.

It seems like there are a few vocal folks who are trying to wrap themselves in their ribbons these days, so COL Joe's remarks about what it means to be 'decorated' are also much appreciated. I personally have a hard time with anyone who describes themselves as "decorated" because doing so seems to completely miss one critical aspect of military medals: they are often earned for displaying selflessness. When someone uses the words "decorated combat veteran" to describe themselves, I can't help but feel that the dignity of the individual and the award they received are diminished.

There's a huge difference between saying "My ship was awarded the Combat Action Ribbon" and "I am a decorated combat veteran." The first is a statement of fact, and it demonstrates pride in the fact that the award was a team effort. The second is arrogant, selfish, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about what it means to serve.


[ Parent ]
I am surprised (4.00 / 2)
that no one brought up the age-old CAB vs. CIB argument, in that, "combat" can only be defined as firing on and being fired upon, with the emphasis on "firing on."  Thus, primarily allowing only Infantry to ever be considered in combat.

But obviously, as a female, and thus a CAB recipient, I still think I saw enough IED's, sniper fire and mortars to give me "the fear" and I gladly would've shot someone if they had shown their faces, the "firing on" would have been a welcome change.  BUT, I am not saying that firing your weapon or taking a life is ever an easy decision.  Seeing death is never a treat . . . which leads me to that someone firing missiles from a ship far far away still rarely sees the ramifications of combat.


The reality of Iraq is that everyone ends up being infantry (4.00 / 2)
at one point or another.  I was a combat engineer, often attached to infantry or MP's, but also working pure combat engineer missions - like clearing the tunnels under Baghdad.  There were a number of times that I came under fire and returned fire, and had an IED spray my vehicle.  I was just lucky that the enemy used a lot of explosive with very little shrapnel.  Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make is that I've seen females clear houses in the middle of the night.   I've seen REMF units get ambushed and end up in a prolonged shooting match.  And I've seen officers that did not ever leave the base get a bronze star.  Decorated doesn't always mean  "deserved".  I remember a female that was nominated for a bronze star (that she definitely deserved) but her CO refused because she had gotten an Article 15 for having sex.  "Combat" doesn't necessarily mean that you left Kuwait (or in this case, the ship).  And the word "veteran" gets tossed around like  - well, like veterans.

And, no, I would never call myself a "Decorated Combat Veteran."

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama


[ Parent ]
There's a definition that goes like this: (4.00 / 1)
If you have to sit there, and hysterically jump up and down and repeatedly claim that you were a brave combat veteran and anyone who says otherwise is unfairly attacking your brave service then you are...

a poser.

I can't believe that anyone who has actually done something would flap their gums like that. You either did it or you didn't and no amount of someone saying something is going to change that.

We have Navy guys, Air Force guys that are dead because they were killed by the enemy--that's not the issue. Everyone should serve in a joint environment and get over this inter-service rivalry bullshit. Anyone who serves is to be honored, but some get put in harm's way and they know they've been put in harm's way.

Chris Myers is a bandwagon guy--he sees that "combat veterans" who actually served in combat are in style, and so he has transformed himself into that which he is not to gain moral authority over others. He should have been content to say that he served, and been modest. Real Veterans are, almost to a fault, more modest than not and silent about what they've done because they have no insecurities about what they faced and who was with them and what they did.

Posers whine and cry.


"just missed" (4.00 / 1)
The RPG that flew over my son's helmet in Sadr City "just missed" when the militia ambushed their squad. I agree with Brandon. Typically, those that have seen real combat don't talk about it. It took forever to find out why my son received his award. He said he "doesn't care".

I appreciate Chis Myers' service, but the spin he's putting on his awards....where's the rolling eyes icon? :).  


I appreciate the input (4.00 / 3)
and what bothers me is the posing.  But if we are going to get really technical:

The Combat Action Ribbon has specific standards for being awarded.  Myers' award came under a waiver of those standards.  It doesn't mean anything at all about his service.  It simply means that it doesn't meet the basic definition of combat as is required to get that ribbon.

If ice is water that is chilled below 32 degress farentheit and the Sec Nav issues a waiver saying that, this one time, we're going to call it ice if it reaches 34 degress farenheit, then, as far as the Navy is concerned, it's ice.  Except that it isn't.


Well, I'm pretty impressed, (4.00 / 1)
with anybody who can endure living in a shithole for an entire tour, but that's because I like my comfort more than most. I do get the point about "combat" having a specific definition, but there should be a living in a shithole medal. I'd be proud enough of that.

I saw Saving Private Ryan in a dark theatre -- twice! And it pisses me off all these pussies who waited for it to come out on DVD so's they could watch it in their easy chairs with the lights on.
____________

You VoteVets vets are tops! Don't let anybody tell you different.


Never saw Private Ryan (4.00 / 1)
and I'm not really sure that the Bunker Hill qualifies as a shithole.  No more than any other ship, for sure.

[ Parent ]
My post... (0.00 / 0)
...was actually intended to confirm something you indicated in your article, that a lot of folks wouldn't know the difference between a real combat citation and any other citation. No doubt, Myers could advantage of that. As a civilian, the whole of the middle east strikes me as the most dangerous, inhospitable place on the planet -- very nearly uninhabitable, (a shithole.)

As far as knowing a real combat job from a not-so-real combat job, frankly, I don't. But you and people like you do. That's why there's the old saying: "You can fool the fans, but you can't fool the players."

Also, I frequently cite my watching Saving Private Ryan in a dark theatre as my "combat experience" here at VetVoice, just for fun. The USS Bunker Hill? Does it have Lazy-boy recliners and cable t.v.? If not, shithole. (I'm getting old. I like my comforts.)

Good article!


[ Parent ]
No Lazy-boys (0.00 / 0)
but many ships have a form of cable TV - but they only get one channel.

[ Parent ]
Suggest the notion of combat not be dumbed down. (0.00 / 0)
Guy 2 years behind me in high school got killed at Ia Drang in fall of 1965,

Friend in my college fraternity blew away an NVA coming down a row of rubber trees in the Michelin Plantation in 1968.

These guys were combat veterans.

I dodged some mortars and 122 mm rockets and some AK-47 fire in 1971-72, but I'm not a combat veteran (although I consider myself a veteran of dealing with large insects, arachnids and rats).


What's funny is.. (0.00 / 0)
On my second tour in Iraq, an Iraqi Police Officer blew himself up 4 feet behind me killing himself and his partner next to him. I was very lucky to receive the minimal amount of shrapnel I did. He was the worst mangled mess that I've ever witnessed a human body to be. I didn't receive any awards, all I received was a second chance at life and a weekend off in some hospital up in Bagdad. The worst part about the incident is, I called my wife to inform her about the accident and she was partying it up at South Padre for spring break!.
By no means do I feel that I am a decorated combat veteran. I hold that title to those individuals in the Special Operations community and the Marines who battled it out in Fallujah.

This piece reminds me of an episode in which my friend and I encountered while we were clearing (He was PCSing to Campbell and I was getting out). We hear these tankers behind us bragging about all the "action" they had seen while in Iraq. My buddy and I turn around at the same time with our CIB's sewn on and he sees us and  says, " Well maybe I didn't see as much action as some people did over there!" We both laughed.

The problem is is that most often then not, when people are in the spot light, especially in politics, they attempt to draw in the croud by stretching the truth on their military experience. This especially comes in handy when they are speaking to a croud that has no idea what the difference is.  


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