Five Myths About the Afghanistan Escalation

by: Brandon Friedman

Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 10:44:00 AM EST


As President Obama readies a plan to send more troops to Afghanistan, there's been a vigorous debate on the progressive side among those who wish to see more U.S. troops sent to Afghanistan and those who don't.  On the one hand, we have a White House website that says explicitly:

Obama and Biden will refocus American resources on the greatest threat to our security -- the resurgence of al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. They will increase our troop levels in Afghanistan, press our allies in NATO to do the same, and dedicate more resources to revitalize Afghanistan's economic development.

On the other, we have a very vocal and growing grass-roots movement of bloggers, journalists, and activists who believe that this is a dangerous advance in the wrong direction.

At bottom, this sort of debate is always good.  By hashing out our issues publicly, we can find common ground and, ultimately, settle on a proposed solution or way forward as a coherent and effective team.  But what we don't need is a "bloody" conflict between allied groups over foreign policy just as the Obama administration is getting started.  Personally, I believe that in order to move forward at all in Afghanistan, it's going to take more troops.  The organization for which I work, VoteVets.org, is also of that view.  But that doesn't mean we don't respect the views and concerns of our friends and allies who see things differently.  That said, at this point, I think it's important to articulate and dispel some of the myths I've seen which concern the proposed build-up of U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

If we're going to make progress, we have to get past hyperbole (on both sides of the debate), and better articulate our views., For many of us who support sending more troops to Afghanistan, we feel like there's simply a lot of misinformation going around on what support for an "escalation" in Afghanistan really means.  And, perhaps since many of us are just trying to keep up with the bold moves the Obama administration has made in just days, we haven't taken the time to clearly and thoughtfully address each of these points.

Myth #1: Those who support additional troops believe military force is the primary solution to the conflict in Afghanistan.

Quite the contrary.  If America wants to see failure on a massive scale, it can get behind a primarily military solution.  The only people I know who support a largely military solution in Afghanistan are my undereducated friends (and I'm sure we all know at least one) who want to "bomb the ragheads back into the Stone Age."  Pretty much everyone else who supports the escalation sees additional troops as only one ingredient--albeit an important one--in terms of clawing our way out of this looming disaster.  To this point, President Obama's Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, had this to say on Tuesday:

Moving away from the Bush administration's expansive rhetoric about creating an Afghan democracy, Gates mused that the U.S. needed to set "modest, realistic goals" in Afghanistan, making clear that he sees "no purely military solution" for the insurgency, preferring a "fully integrated civil-military strategy."

A White House official backed that up on Wednesday by saying that the "new U.S. policy that will have a 'significant non-military component.'"

And, of course, this is the only realistic way to go.  The aspects that will win this effort in the long term are economic development, educational infrastructure, civil infrastructure (like roads, electricity, and clean water), and a transition in farming from opium to something else.  But regardless, none of this will ever be accomplished in Afghanistan unless someone can secure the population.  Because you can't accomplish any of those non-military acts in the middle of a raging Taliban insurgency, or in the event of a pull-out, a civil war.  And that's why sufficient military force has a role to play in fixing this situation.

Myth #2: This escalation in Afghanistan is just like the unquestioning drive toward war in Iraq.

Many progressives see a comparable situation to that in which the drive to war in Iraq was crammed down the throats of the American public by the presidential administration and a fawning media.  Looking back, many progressives feel as though they didn't do enough to halt that reckless path to war.  Not wanting to get burned again, they're pulling out all the stops to prevent it from happening again.  Having been on the receiving end of Bush's Brilliant Plan myself, I can certainly appreciate the effort.  But after email conversations with many on the progressive Left over the past couple of weeks, I can't help but get the feeling that many who oppose the escalation aren't adequately distinguishing between these two dissimilar situations.

The fact is, the run-up to the war in Iraq was nothing like the current push to add troops in Afghanistan.  Without delving too deeply into the tactical and strategic military aspects of both, it's clear to everyone now that the Bush administration pushed for war in Iraq based on the calculations and machinations of people who literally had no idea what they were talking about: Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, and Frederick Kagan to name a few.  None of these individuals had any combat experience at all--either conventional or unconventional.  And they had little, if any, formal schooling in, or understanding of, the societies they sought to affect.

But, the Obama administration has taken a different tack.  The people guiding the Afghanistan effort are, believe it or not, actual subject matter experts.  The administration isn't just relying on the advice of political cronies.  Instead, they're using a mix of competent academic and military thinkers who have extensive experience in not only the region, but also in the field of counterinsurgency.

At the top of the Defense Department, we have Robert Gates.  In contrast to Donald Rumsfeld--who epitomized the dangers of the military-industrial complex--Gates is a career civil servant who spent 26 years in the CIA and on the National Security Council.  His new Under Secretary of Defense for Policy is Michele Flournoy, the former co-founder of the influential Center for a New American Security (CNAS)--a think tank known for its focus on counterinsurgency.  When speaking to this very topic in 2007, Flournoy wrote:

Military power is necessary but not sufficient to deal with 21st century challenges; complex problems demand solutions that integrate all of the instruments of our national power.

Just as importantly, the Obama administration has shown an immediate willingness to listen to those who've learned first-hand the capabilities and limitations of military power in counterinsurgency operations on the ground.  Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Paul Eaton, who has led both the Army's Infantry School and the establishment of the Iraqi Armed Forces in 2004, recently said, "We never had enough of anything in Afghanistan"--shortly before meeting with the president in the White House last week.  Craig Mullaney (a Rhodes Scholar) and Nate Fick, who both led troops during counterinsurgency operations in Afghanistan and later authored memoirs about their experiences, have both served on the Obama transition team.  In fact, just this month, Fick, along with his CNAS colleague--Iraq veteran and counterinsurgency luminary John Nagl--wrote in Foreign Policy magazine that in "the past five years, the fight in Afghanistan has been hobbled by strategic drift, conflicting tactics, and too few troops."  While Nagl and Fick are arguing for more troops in Afghanistan, they're by no means asserting that such a move is the be-all, end-all.  They note:

Nearly three quarters of the population is illiterate. The country has 50 percent more land than Iraq, but a fifth of the paved roads. Security is crucial, but it is development--enabled by responsible governance--that will secure a lasting peace.

Remember, these are military leaders--one a soldier and one a marine--to whom the administration is listening.  And they're arguing that the military aspect of the mission is only one part.  So this isn't a matter of "the military versus the State Department," or "the military versus the Left."  This is, in fact, a long overdue shift in which the U.S. government and the military itself have finally come to grips with the fact that these aren't problems that can be solved by the military alone.

In sum, the team advising President Obama is a far cry from the "Gang Who Couldn't Govern Straight" which advised President Bush during the full-court press for war with Iraq.  And while I'm not suggesting that anyone trust their government uncritically, I would ask that people give this team a little more credit and little more leeway in formulating foreign policy than the last team.

Myth #3: Those who support an escalation in Afghanistan aren't concerned with civilian casualties.

If the U.S. and NATO ultimately fail in Afghanistan, much of the blame could rightfully be placed on the many disastrous instances in which coalition forces have killed civilians.  It's the one thing that carries the potential to unite the Afghan population in opposition to our presence.  But by adding troops in Afghanistan, we can mitigate this, namely through less reliance on air strikes and through better intelligence gleaned from citizens who aren't living in abject fear of the Taliban.

Using air strikes frequently is a horrible counterinsurgency strategy and the military--including Secretary Gates--knows it.  Only a Douglas Feith-type would propose "winning" an insurgency through air power.  That's one of the reasons commanders are begging for more troops on the ground.  

Calling in air strikes is what you do when you feel severely threatened and don't have enough troops on the ground to take care of an insurgency the right way.  Save for carpet bombing or a nuclear payload, air power is essentially futile unless you have troops on the ground in close proximity to the projected strike.  That's because troops on the ground can correctly identify and assess the target, call it in, and perform a sensitive site exploitation on the ground after the fact in order to determine what the strike achieved--if anything.  If you can't do that, you're throwing punches in the dark--and unnecessarily killing civilians.  Unfortunately, outnumbered ground commanders will continue to rely on air power until their ranks are bolstered.

From a counterinsurgency standpoint, killing civilians will very quickly lead to the deaths of your own troops.  It galvanizes societies and turns them against you.  Thus more troops should result in better intelligence, fewer air strikes, and fewer mistaken raids.  And this is especially important if you're already struggling to earn the trust of these communities. . .which leads to the next myth.

Myth #4: The Afghan people don't want us in their country.

Trust me: You'll know when they don't want us in their country.  To this day, the vast majority of Afghans truly prefer U.S. forces over the Taliban.  What they don't like, however, is our overwhelming failure to make progress after our initial gains in 2001 and 2002.  If they hated us in general, the Afghans would've kicked out our meager force of 30,000 troops years ago.  What they hate is when we tell them that we're going to run off the Taliban and fix their country--and then we don't.  What they hate is when we offer them incentives to side with us against the Taliban, and then, when the Taliban return to their villages, we leave them hung out to dry.  What they hate is when we are forced to rely on air power--resulting in unnecessary civilian casualties--because we don't have enough ground troops.

This degradation of support from the Afghan people is evident in annual polling.  According to ABC News, in 2005, 68 percent of Afghans viewed the U.S. presence positively.  In 2006, that number had fallen to 57 percent.  And by the end of 2007, only 42 percent of Afghans viewed U.S. forces positively.  We can only assume the numbers were better prior to 2005 and that they're far worse now.

The reason is simple: It's math.  We just don't have enough troops to keep in their good graces.  John Nagl--who literally helped write the book on counterinsurgency--explains in the New York Times why that is and how more troops will help:

The essence of success is counterinsurgency, which requires boots on the ground, and plenty of them --20 to 25 counterinsurgents for every 1,000 people, or some 600,000 for all of Afghanistan, a country larger and more populous than Iraq. The additional 30,000 American forces on tap for deployment to Afghanistan over the next year are sorely needed, but obviously insufficient to protect all 30 million people in the country.

However, insurgencies are not defeated by foreign forces. They are defeated by the security services of the afflicted nation. Thus the long-term answer to the Taliban's insurgency has to be a much expanded Afghan National Army. Currently 70,000 and projected to grow to 135,000, the Afghan army is the most respected institution in that troubled country. It may need to reach 250,000, and be supported by a similarly sized police force, to provide the security that will cause the Taliban to wither. Building such an Afghan Army will be a long-term effort that will require American equipment and advisers for many years, but since the Afghans can field about 70 troops for the cost of one deployed American soldier, there is no faster, cheaper or better way to win.

Most Afghans still despise the Taliban.  Unfortunately, the Afghan people are going to ally themselves with the side they see as winning.  It's an understandable survival mechanism for them.  This is why many jumped at the opportunity to work with us in the beginning--and it's also why so many have now turned back to the Taliban.  Because we have so few troops in the country, we're not able to support and protect those Afghans who side with us.

So this means, of course, that the Afghans don't inherently hold us in disdain.  But if we're going to win back their support, then we need to show them that we can protect them from the Taliban--something that will clearly take more troops--both U.S. and Afghan.  

Myth #5: The Obama administration has set its Afghanistan policy in stone.

Unlike the ideologically-driven Bush administration, this administration isn't stupid.  And they've given every indication that they intend to be a learning organization.  By that, I mean that if someone can come up with a better solution, they seem as though they're going to listen.  As White House spokesman Robert Gibbs reiterated on Wednesday:

"(There) is a review of our policy in Afghanistan. That policy ... review continues in order to ensure our success in that region, but that policy review is not yet completed," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said during a media briefing, as he tried to clarify what he said officials "believed was erroneous reporting" by The New York Times. The newspaper had reported a shift in emphasis to fighting insurgents rather than development.

"The president has long believed that, whether it's in Iraq or in Afghanistan ... that there's not simply a military solution to that problem, that only through long-term and sustainable development can we ever hope to turn around what's going on there," Gibbs said.

As one who supports adding troops and resources in Afghanistan, I'm comfortable with this.  I have more faith in the decision-making ability of this crew over the last.

The bottom line is that we currently have no strategic or operational depth in Afghanistan.  And while I don't have all the answers, I do know that nothing happens unless we get the flexibility to operate that comes with having more troops on the ground.

Brandon Friedman :: Five Myths About the Afghanistan Escalation
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My personal point of view (0.00 / 0)
I would love to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan as soon as possible.  In order to do that, we need a build up of forces now.  Part of what is turning the Afghan government and the Afghan people against us is the large bombing raids and collateral damage that they involve.  This could be heavily mitigated by increasing the size and capabilities of our ground forces.  With more intel resources and more force multipliers on the ground, our military will be much more able to target specific strategic points.  

The correlation to the surge in Iraq is a red herring.  At that point, we were adding troops when just the opposite was most needed.  Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan has a clear, defined enemy and a military objective - two things we could never show in Iraq.  This was even pointed out by commanders and troops on the ground.  We have had commanders screaming for more troops in Afghanistan for the last 7 years.  A temporary escalation of force there will enable us to withdraw and leave much faster.  We cannot just "muddle through."

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama


with a cynical eye (4.00 / 1)
I see numerous problems with some of these arguments for escalation. I do not, however, offer credible alternatives to reaching our objectives. We cannot provide the kind of troops necessary, not the 1/2 million or more you would see if we started again from scratch. To rely, however, on Afghan police forces to provide the same level of security, at 1/4 million, seems like a canard to me. you've already stated that there is rampant illiteracy and the country is truly disjointed with a lack of infrastructure. It is more tribally based than Iraq, I would argue. This, to me, reeks of the Rumsfeld solution, in the end. Train, train, train, sell those numbers as progress, even if the people we train aren't up to par.
As for the mission, it is stated that it will be primarily combat, and that all the other components--rebuilding, good will, are being left to NATO. I believe Obama will do better than Bush to secure European help, but really, 60,000 troops is not enough to do this right. So, if you can't do the Full Monty, why subject a select few, severely weathered already by multiple tours, with the odds clearly already against them?
Again, the alternative is...??

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics!" (0.00 / 0)
I don't usually like to start anything with a Mark Twain quote, but frankly, I'm sick and tired of arguing with people that don't have a realistic appreciation of what troop numbers really mean.

First off, let me be emphatically clear on this one point.  I could not possibly agree more with Mr. Friedman on our need to have more troops in theater, or the fact that we needed them there years ago.  I would, however, like to add to his explanation on this need.  

Simply throwing out a phrase with a number in it like "there are currently 140,000 troop in theater," doesn't even come close to telling the whole story.  How many of those are non-combat MOS troops that will never leave the wire?  How many are combat MOS troops that have been assigned to other important jobs like force protection that keep them from carrying out much needed security missions.  Raw numbers simply don't tell the whole story.  Even with elevated troop levels there's still a significant chance that some units won't have the manning necessary to do the missions that they deployed to do.

I'm not saying those other troops did do necessary and important jobs, or that deployments aren't as tough on them and their families.  I'm just saying that number of boots on the ground do not directly translate to number of boots kicking in doors or humping over mountains.  

It would seem obvious to any one who has served in either Afghanistan or Iraq that having enough guys makes all the difference.  Anecdotally, when we were in Baghdad and had all the help in the world from units in adjoining AOs things went pretty smoothly.  In the Anbar province where we were severely undermanned for the amount of ground that we were supposed to cover . . . let's just say things didn't go quite as smoothly.  

In Afghanistan security has to be the number one priority.  I HAS TO BE! Without security we are only lying to ourselves if we believe that we can accomplish anything else.  I'm not talking about going cave to cave and killing anything that doesn't wave an American flag at you.   I'm talking about basic security so that people can carry on their daily lives with out fear of being kidnapped or . . . gee . . I don' t know . . . blown up!  If we are really concerned with security at home we must realize that stabilizing the source country of most of the threats to that security needs to be an overwhelming priority to this, or any, administration.  

Without security we cannot expect any of the infrastructure projects to succeed.  No one will work on these projects for fear of being killed, and if they are built they will be destroyed if no one is there to guard them.   How can we expect the Afghan people to develop faith in their new government if they can't even count on them to provide for their safety.

I'm the last person who wants to ever see another American sent into harms way.  However, sending more troops to Afghanistan with a clear and well thought out strategy is, I believe, the only way to solve this dilemma.  Without them Afghanistan doesn't stand a chance at developing organic security forces capable of supporting a new democratic government and guaranteeing its citizens the security and most importantly the personal liberties that they deserve.  


My concerns... (0.00 / 0)
That fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan will only encourage their migration into Pakistan, further destabilizing the country.  This is one of the inherent benefits of a non-state militant vs. the nation-state soldier, freedom of movement.  Especially when they carry the advantage in terms of knowledge of terrain, culture etc.  You can have all the soldiers in country you want, but if they're unable to cross an imaginary line in pursuit of the enemy, what good can they possibly do?  Especially with the prospects of a failed state in nuclear Pakistan hanging in the balance.  

To quote William S. Lind, "First, Pakistan is strategically a vastly more important prize than Afghanistan or Iraq could ever be. Second, when guerillas are put under pressure in one place, they go somewhere else. Third, we have allowed ourselves to be put in the position of fighting the Pashtun in Afghanistan, and there are lots of Pashtun in Pakistan. War with the Pashtun is war with the Pashtun, to whom borders drawn in London mean nothing."

http://antiwar.com/lind/?artic...

How well does Democracy translate to a society that is largely based on it's tribal relationships?  Is it even possible at this point in time?  Have we even bothered looking into this?  I fear we are trying to apply a model of governance to a people who have no basis for comparison, no reference point.  Continued efforts in this regard may be doing more harm than good as it is essentially racist.


Excellent.... (0.00 / 0)
My concerns...
That fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan will only encourage their migration into Pakistan, further destabilizing the country.

Although the evolving OB administration's Afgh policies seem positive, your point deserves many second looks.  The bottom line is where/when can we stop.  AQ and the Taliban will not go away (too much institutional money, too many disenchanted, poor Muslims, etc.), so what is our overall end game?  But like some other poster wrote, "what are the alternatives?"

Your point about the numerous tribal areas in Afgh is troublesome too.  Hell, if Iraq is/was tough, getting all those tribal leaders together in the interest of national peace and unity will be monumental, esp. with the $$ that the Taliban gives them, and how they play them, just to induce more destabilization.


[ Parent ]
Two points I take issue with: (0.00 / 0)
What is your alternative suggestion, if indeed the only effect on the Taliban that more U.S. troops can make is to drive them into Pakistan?  What do you suggest?

It's obvious that the porous border has to be dealt with.

And, it has only been a few decades ago that Afghanistan was successfully beginning an era of education and fairly democratic attitudes.  This ended with the election of a Marxist president--probably because the new prosperity and freedom didn't reach the majority of Afghans who remained in poverty.  A more progressive, far-reaching effort could very well bring more of the country into the kind of life they deserve.  Yes,it's very tribal, but tribal leaders know that to keep power they keep their people happy.


[ Parent ]
That may be another problem (0.00 / 0)
That there is no solution the United States can offer.  We are outsiders and will always be outsiders to the Afghan people.  Pull out and probably the Taliban will re-take Afghanistan and it will once again become a haven for al-qaeda and like minded jihadists, that may become unavoidable.  While that does not sound the least bit appetizing the other option is endless war, or complete destruction of Afghanistan.  The Taliban are committed for the long haul, longer than we can probably afford to fight even monetarily, not to mention in terms of men, women, materials, psyches and families.  The best solution may be to just be the greatest Americans we can be, only here at home, and again function as an example to the rest of the world.  And if we are hit again to take the proper Christian action and turn the other cheek and demonstrate to the rest of the world how monstrous our enemies can be, how compassionate the American people can be and how to stand up to them not with bullets and bombs, but with ideas and unconditional love for our fellow human beings.

[ Parent ]
Noble, but then there's reality... (0.00 / 0)
And if we are hit again to take the proper Christian action and turn the other cheek and demonstrate to the rest of the world how monstrous our enemies can be

If only it were that simple.

This would mean we should dissolve the military, right?  And wouldn't the fanatical jihadists see this as a sign of weakness, then REALLY come for us?  And again, IMHO, the "rest of the world" just doesn't care about "how monstrous ... enemies can be" as long as the enemies don't screw with their countries.  In Iran, they run over little boys' arms with a truck for stealing bread, stone women, slow-hang converts to non-Muslim religions.  Does the rest of the world care?

But your main point is valid: there may not even be an end game for decades because the Taliban and AQ are getting stronger throughout the world.


[ Parent ]
A larger problem (0.00 / 0)
In Iran, they run over little boys' arms with a truck for stealing bread, stone women, slow-hang converts to non-Muslim religions.  Does the rest of the world care?

Hell, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan make the Iranians look like Boy Scouts.  Does the rest of the world care?  No.  

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama


[ Parent ]
Speaking (4.00 / 1)
of Saudi Arabia, we have to start doing something about them now. We may well not be in much of a position to do a whole lot at the moment, but we could at least attempt to gather intelligence on them and end our part in the rehabilitation program, which is absolutely insanely retarded. We wouldn't send the Khmer Rouge to Chairman Mao for rehabilitation now, would we?  

[ Parent ]
My question... (0.00 / 0)
Will this kind of policy included adequate dwell time? By "adequate" i mean 18-36 months. We're still, at this very moment, overstretched and overstressed.

Rough math: (0.00 / 0)
At the height of the surge, when Army tours went to 15 months on, 12 months off, we had 170,000 troops in Iraq and 30,000 in Afghanistan.  That's 200,000.  If we pulled back to, say 20,000 in Iraq, and had 60,000 in Afghanistan, that should more than double current dwell time.  

Again, really rough math.  Not sure how it would work out in real life yet.


[ Parent ]
I dunno (0.00 / 0)
the numbers I have heard for Afghanistan were alot more than 60000. I have heard 400000. The 20000 in Iraq sounds about right for now, but can we do 400000?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor...


[ Parent ]
By Afghanistan, (0.00 / 0)
we are including Pakistan right?  

I don't think we could address the problems of one (0.00 / 0)
without having to tackle the problems of the other.  Each country, Pakistan and Afghanistan, helps and hurts the other.  They will have to be managed simultaneously.

Personally, I would support cross border operations if we have high-value targets on the Afghan side using Pak as a safe haven.

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama


[ Parent ]
Very true (0.00 / 0)
My main issue is that I think we need to focus much more on Pakistan vice Afghanistan. Pakistan has a much larger ideological base for Wahhabism and probably houses most of the training camps in the region as well. There are also the Nukes. Granted, what we do in Pakistan is all contingent on how much the Pakistani military can do. But if they can't get it done, what do we do?  

[ Parent ]
I think (0.00 / 0)
Pakistan, not Afghanistan should be the main focus in the region. Since we are already in Afghanistan, it would make sense to increase forces there and take it to the enemy there in the very short term. However, getting tied down in nation building there makes no sense. Pakistan is now the Taliban's main base militarily, and Pakistan and/or Saudi Arabia are now AQ's main base, if AQ has a main base. We know that there are numerous training camps in Pakistan(I have read 100+), and I would bet my life savings that there are numerous training camps in Saudi Arabia as well. Weighing down in Afghanistan makes absolutely no sense to me, as Afghanistan is neither AQ's main base anymore nor the ideological base of Wahhabism, the ideology of the enemy. We fight wars to win, not to not lose.

Now, I do believe such an effort will require allies. However, I really don't see where NATO has been much help. If anything, they have been a hinderance. I was thinking real allies like the Russians. It most certainly is in the Russians best interest to eradicate the Taliban and something tells me that the Russians have much better intelligence in the region than we do.

Granted, I am in complete agreement that we need better intelligence and more troops for such an effort. As Michael Scheuer has said, "We can not expect to others to do our dirty work for us."



"The Grave Yard of Empires" (0.00 / 0)
30 US soldiers patrol 350 sq mi of horrific mountain terrain.

"We're not fighting an army, we're fighting a way of life"

More from Rachel as she interviews Rather after he's been to Kabul. There are some clips of Rather's interviews including one with Gen McKiernan on Thurs' show.

vid will be up here

http://rachel.msnbc.com


I am (0.00 / 0)
still not convinced that they have thought this through. Not saying that the Bush adminstration thought Iraq through, but why do we want to potentially make the same mistake again?

I think we should stop with the rehabilitation and take a certain world leader's advice here:

"We should fight against them, throw them in prisons and destroy them." and "If AQ is in the shithouse, we will soak them in  the shithouse."    


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Paid for VoteVets Political Action Committee. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. VoteVets Action Fund is a 501(c)(4) organization which primarily focuses on nonpartisan education and advocacy on behalf veterans and their families. VoteVets Political Action Committee is a federal political committee which primarily helps elect Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran candidates and educates about veterans and military issues aimed at influencing the outcome of the next election.

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VoteVets Political Action and Vote Vets Action Fund are separate organizations.

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