So Who Exactly are We Fighting in Af-Pak?

by: Brandon Friedman

Wed Feb 25, 2009 at 20:37:59 PM EST


If you're confused at all about who exactly the "bad guys" are in Afghanistan and Pakistan, you need to read this piece at the New Atlanticist by Steve Hynd.  He begins:

Two years into the Iraq war, moderately well read Westerners already knew that the insurgency there wasn't monolithic. Honest reporting repeatedly made clear that Al Qaeda, Sunni militant groups of various varieties and Sadrists didn't see eye to eye and often worked at cross purposes even while all were hostile to America and its allies.

Yet after seven years in Afghanistan, the same cannot be said about Western knowledge of militants in the region. There's a big, amorphous mass called "The Taliban" which is in cahoots with Al Qaeda - and that's about as fine grained as it usually gets.

That was sufficient back in 2001. The American-led coalition invaded to engage Osama bin Laden's group and the Taliban's organized fighters and on the battlefield itself Afghans quickly sorted into those who were either Al Qaeda or Taliban, or those who were against them.

But it doesn't cover the current complex situation at all well, which means the West's voters are at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding - and approving or disapproving - their leaders' plans.

For some reason--and maybe it's because I spent significantly more time living and working in Iraq--but even after being in Afghanistan and Pakistan, reading books about them, etc., I've never quite gotten a firm handle on who the fuck is who there.  I feel ignorant saying that, but the fact is, it's a much more fractured and broken place than Iraq, and it's much more difficult for the average Westerner to grasp, I think.  But in Steve's piece, he does a great job in trying to sort it all out.  

And if we're ever to have any modicum of success in Afghanistan at all, it's going to take a lot more people who can do that.

(And in case you wondering, yes, Steve's piece includes a quote from me with a Star Wars reference.)

UPDATE: Al Jazeera English aired this segment Tuesday on the same topic:

Brandon Friedman :: So Who Exactly are We Fighting in Af-Pak?
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I have several questions regarding Afghanistan (0.00 / 0)
Personally, I served in Iraq but I have had several friends who have served in Afghanistan. Regarding who exactly we are fighting, I noticed that you referenced the AO as Af-Pak in the title.  However, Afghanistan also borders Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan.  Do we have similar problems with these areas along the borders, especially in regards to material support, funding and recruitment for the insurgency?  

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

No. It's the fact that the (0.00 / 0)
Pashtun heartland straddles the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.  The tribes there don't recognize the Durand Line separating the two countries, as designated by the British.

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
there are numerous other Sunni Islamist groups in the region, including

Jundallah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...

Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

Islamic Movement of Central Asia(Possibly an Umbrella Group)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

East Turkestan Islamic Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...

Islamic Jihad Union(Possibly another umbrella or splinter)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

I have also read that the Russians had problems with Saudi funded Islamists in the Stans back in the 90s and highly doubt that the Saudis stopped funding those Islamists. I can't really comment on the borders, as I have never been in that part of the world. Albeit, I would not be surprised if bribes went along way in the region. Now, I know for a fact that many Arab states took Iraq as an opportunity to get rid of their Islamists, and would not be particularly surprised to see the same phenomenon happen here.  


[ Parent ]
Hey thanks! (0.00 / 0)
That's exactly the type stuff I was looking for!  This should make for some interesting reading today - and I'm still trying to slog through Abu Muqawama's COIN book club.

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

[ Parent ]
Fred, help with this (0.00 / 0)
Since you're more knowledgeable about the Saudis, tell me exactly WHO are the bad guys there.  As you say, the Saudis funded the fundamentalists (still do), but is this the work of the royalty or the fundie Islamics, or both?  Seems to me like the US is hooked up with the royalty, thinking that they can control (yeah, right) their radical elements.  Is this close?

I guess I could look it up but there's only 27 hours/day.  Thanks.


[ Parent ]
I'd (4.00 / 1)
say both the royals and the religious establishment, although the royal's reasons for supporting the Islamists strike me as being much more complicated. There are some amongst the royals whom actively empathize with AQ and Co, likely supporting them for ideological reasons. Likewise, there are also sure to be  members of the Royal Family who basically pay AQ and Co off to leave them alone and wage their jihad elsewhere. There are also those amongst the royals whom may or may not be particularly fond of AQ, yet are more than happy to use AQ as a tool to do their dirty work. Then again, there are also sure to be royals whom share the same agenda as AQ, yet find AQ too radical for even their tastes. Granted, the royals tend to be ruthless Grade A dictator material whom often have sinister agendas of their own.  

As for our relations with the Saudis, I think that is based mainly on economical reasons, vice anything else. We are dependent on them for oil and their oil reserves apparently serve as a major bulwark for the stability of the world oil market. There is also the issue of Saudi investments in the US, but from what I have read, the oil is the much bigger economic factor. There may be some belief in DC that we can count on the Royals to control the Islamists, but I find such a belief to be lacking much basis in reality.

Granted, such a confusing situation is only made more confusing by the facts that Saudi Arabia is an absoulte police state which continues to remain an intelligence "black hole" for us, and also controls what might very well be the most powerful lobby in Washington DC. The Arabs also tend to be very adept at conspiracies and disinformation, with the Saudis likely being no exception.  



[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
Not good.  Seems like they have us just where they want, while maintaining their own strong position.  Frack.

[ Parent ]
Fred--GREAT analysis. (0.00 / 0)
I especially like "adept at conspiracies and disinformation"--there's a completely non-Arab good at that too.  He was POTUS once.

[ Parent ]
I (0.00 / 0)
don't think so. As Americans, we like to think that we are good at conspiracies, plotting, disinfo, but we are actually pretty terrible at such things. Now, being Americans, we do have a tendency to be cowboys, fail to think more than one move ahead, fail to see the bigger picture, and rely on emotions rather than logic. I think that is what actually happened vice any type of conspiracy. We just aren't very good at such things.  

[ Parent ]
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