John Boehner Doesn't Understand American Values

by: Richard Allen Smith

Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 17:03:47 PM EST


After the attacks of September 11th, we were told that "evil-doers" were out to destroy our nation because the hated our values and our American way of life.  I don't know how others define our values and our American way of life, but I always took it to mean that we, as described in the Declaration of Independence, as humans and not as citizens of any state, were endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights. While not specifically noted in the document, the concept of rule of law is certainly one of these rights. The very idea of a government that is of, by and for the people illustrates that no single person, nor the government itself, is above the law. As I've written previously:

[O]ur American way of life includes concepts of freedom from tyranny and a certain American personal independence that has been passed down through the many generations of this nation. If we are to believe that torturing human beings made us safe, that denying habeas corpus has made us more secure, that warrantless wiretapping impeded the evildoers, then what did I and we volunteer to lay our lives down for? In short, if we violate the very ideals that hold together our American way of life in the pursuit of security, what exactly are we secure from? What does that tell us about the success of the "evildoers" in attempting to "destroy our American way of life"?

The same holds true for the rule of law. Without rule of law, the very concept of our Republic does not hold water. But don't tell House Minority Leader John Boehner that:

"The Obama Administration's irresponsible decision to prosecute the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks in New York City puts the interests of liberal special interest groups before the safety and security of the American people. The possibility that Khalid Sheik Mohammed and his co-conspirators could be found 'not guilty' due to some legal technicality just blocks from Ground Zero should give every American pause."

If John Boehner doesn't believe that the American judicial system and the concept of rule of law are stable enough to try Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he either no respect for the rule of law, or has no faith in American values or the American way of life.
Richard Allen Smith :: John Boehner Doesn't Understand American Values
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John Boehner Doesn't Understand American Values | 13 comments
Boehner and the "24" hour FEARometer. (0.00 / 0)
The tanned guy just keeps playing the same hole from a different tee.

Boehner is known for taking Congressional junkets where there are the best golf courses.  Wonder if he has played here yet:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WO...

Hey, Richard hope you are leaving an "Open Thread" for the week end.

Well I don't take it that way (0.00 / 0)
If habeas corpus was meant to be a universal human right, then wouldn't they have such a thing in Russia?

Wiretapping American citizens? OK bad idea. Habeas corpus for non-American citizens whom are actively out to kill Americans and happen to be illegal combatants? No way.

Sorry but American law is designed to protect the rights of American citizens, not the entire world.  

I believe Habeus Corpus to be a basic human right (0.00 / 0)
Some countries choose to take that right away - Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.  The difference with the US is that we choose to determine whether or not someone actually did something before we lock them away.  It is one of the things that separates us from third world dictatorships and Islamic theocracies.  

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama
[ Parent ]
well.. (0.00 / 0)
Sorry but American law is designed to protect the rights of American citizens, not the entire world.
where is that said or even implied in the constitution?  

I'm on twitter.
[ Parent ]
Nowhere (0.00 / 0)
but it is not said or implied that we are supposed to go around spreading American rights to the rest of the world either, which would leave that part quite open to interpretation.

However, the general wisdom of our forefathers did not support interventionism in the interest of universal human rights.


[ Parent ]
Actually, our military leaders have repeatedly told us (0.00 / 0)
That we are spreading democracy, freedom, and the American way of life to other countries.  Besides that, I look at this as the same as the Nuremberg trials.  Sure, we could have locked away the Nazis forever or just executed them.  But by putting them on trial we showed the rest of the world who they were and what they stood for.

Hundreds of detainees from Guantanamo Bay have been released over the years because it was determined that they posed no threat and had no links to terror organizations.  If we had just executed them, or held them forever, it would have been a sign to the rest of the world who we are and what we stand for.  

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

[ Parent ]
Well should we (0.00 / 0)
be insisting on spreading democracy, human rights and the American way of life? I don't think so. Both the Iraqis and the Afghans wanted freedom, but did that mean they wanted to become an exact copy of the US? No, and such an evolution would not be very likely even if they did want to be just like us.

The releasing of GITMO detainees was anything but done properly. Some of the detainees may have been sold for tribal bounties, but we also sent a bunch of them to Saudi Arabia to be rehabilitated by the Saudi religious establishment which was hardly a rational decision.

As far as showing the World what AQ and Co. stand for, much of the world already does know what Wahhabism stands for. I know that the Russians, Iraqis, and Iranians do. We don't need trials for that purpose. The Western Europeans may not get what the Wahhabis stand for, but that would be nothing new as they didn't understand what the Nazis stood for until he was walking all over them.

Of course, what do we really stand for and what does the "world" really think of us?


[ Parent ]
Furthermore, (0.00 / 0)
common sense would say that if we were seeking to spread democracy and freedom to the world, we would have to actually win wars.

Of all people, I think Josef Stalin hit it best on that point. "The pope, how many divisions has he got?"

Say what we will about American values, I believe American values also used to include actually winning wars. We haven't been doing much of that lately.


[ Parent ]
we are not spreading american rights to the rest of the world (0.00 / 0)
we are using american laws in american trials for crimes committed on american soil.

I'm on twitter.
[ Parent ]
Thing is (0.00 / 0)
bin Laden declared war on the United States twice, which would make 9/11 an act of war vice a crime. Give that fact,  wasting tax dollars on civilian trials is a bit silly if you ask me.
[ Parent ]
Seeing that we were declared war upon, (0.00 / 0)
using civilian courts is rather silly. And seeing that AQ and Co. are unlawful combatants, we should be killing more of them, many, many more of them.

That said, what can we do with the ones already taken prisoner? I say give them the same rights the Japanese had after World War II under the IMT.

[ Parent ]
We've had a crisis in faith in our rule of law, but we are returning (0.00 / 0)
to that rule.

Trying them as common criminals takes away their meme of noble jihadi warriors. They don't get there wish of identity of martyrdom.

There will be legal and security difficulties, but they are not insurmountable.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26...

I don't think so (0.00 / 0)
We haven't really returned to rule of law, as the Saudis are still immune to any legal scrutiny regarding 9/11.

And I just don't see where trying them as common criminals accomplishes much of anything. Western Laws are infidel based to them and hold no value whatsoever. Trying them as common criminals in high profile trials actually gives them another opportunity to spit in the face of infidel laws and reestablish their credentials as jihadis. It's not really denying them martyrdom either, as the jihadis view life in prison as a sort of martyrdom in it's own right.

All that aside, why would we want to go through such legal and security issues to accomplish nothing? If Military Tribunals were good for the Japanese, then they are good for al Qaida and Co.


[ Parent ]
John Boehner Doesn't Understand American Values | 13 comments
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